SINGLE ENDED TIP HOSE ISSUE
Bob 08-27-2008 comment profile send pm notify

IF YOU WANT AN OPERATORS ATTENTION; FREE FOOD OR NUDE WOMEN WORK...usually

I have a couple of questions that I absolutely need answered by each of you.

If you don’t reply to this post, I understand. I will suffer in silence (fat chance).

If you don’t reply to this post do yourself a favor, look into the mirror, and answer the questions to yourself. No one has to know but you; and you are what this whole thing is about.

1.       Did you get into an accident today? Did you hurt yourself or any other person? Did you cause damage to be done to your property or the property of anyone else, like your company?

2.       Was today ‘special’ or just a typical day? A get up, get dressed and go to work kind of a day.

3.       If you did not get hurt, get killed, wound or kill another, destroy anyone’s property and it was a typical day.

4.       Why does tomorrow need to be any different?

You have proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that it is not necessary to kill, wound, break, wreck or destroy to do your job.

Several years ago, I remember the day WE DID IT. We made the 17 foot promise; and we have all kept that promise. I honestly think that silly sticker was the best thing I was ever a part of. I get a kick out of it every day. Still.

What are the chances, now that YOU KNOW that it is possible for you to do your job ACCIDENT FREE; you proved it yourself… can we generate that same degree of dedication to a new, higher ACCIDENT FREE campaign?

I am sure that you are just like me in that you don’t want to be a part of some phony-ass deal. Me too.

Can we do that? Can we make it work as well as the 17 foot promise? Or do we need to  take a smaller bite out of this apple?

Whatcha say guys?

On the board – in email                 irbsjr@msn.com – on the phone (770) 403-1444

It is, as with all things, UP TO YOU.

Bob ;~)

 


kneerick 08-28-2008 reply profile send pm notify

kinda hard to get into trouble laying on the couch watching it rain,I DO HAVE AN EXTRA TICKET TO RICHMOND THOUGH!

eddie 08-28-2008 reply profile send pm notify

No,none for me as far back as I can remember. Also, where can I get some of those funny stickers (as you call them) the 17 foot?

v-dawg 08-28-2008 reply profile send pm notify

NICE AND EASY DAY TODAY , POURED OUT A HOUSE SLAB FOR MY DAD'S COMPANY EVERYTHING WENT SMOOTH . EVERYBODY WENT HOME SAFE


toper 08-28-2008 reply profile send pm notify

no accidents, no injuries or casualties,typical day? dont think so,every day i can get up and go to work is a special one, just being honest and safe, take care

TooTall 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

WHERE'S THE NAKED CHIX & NASCAR TIX ?

I beleive Bobs proposal is a very possible reality. We all do it every day. Why cant we do it every single solitary day. Lets add it to our daily routine! 


Many 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

What would Captain Nemo say about the missing Sushi ??.

#1 - Nice day,uneventfull !!!.I'm lying,try getting around town with Obama in town.Awfully hard to get hurt with all those people watching you.

#2 - Every day is special,staying one step ahead of the bill collectors.

#3 - All's well,no hits,misses or errors.

#4 - It doesn't,if one is working at it.

Over the last 30 or so I have tried to make as many friends as I could.I couldn't imagine hurting one because I was stuipid,it's personal.

I can say that when tragidy hits it happens with one fell swoop,no warning.This goes way beyond pump safety,personal safety as well.I am lucky I guess,being alive and able to remember.I will no longer have a CDL but will be able to drive (blessings).Just like pump safety,strokes have no taskmaster.90% struggling for the other 10%.

My Best


Bob 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I was sure that the giant squid was going to push us over the top. OKAY, I was wrong, kill me!

But before I go, how about a little help narrowing down this request to something YOU feel as doable? Like picking one totally preventable accident and working to stomp it out.

I may be off just a little here, maybe, but it seems to me that our favorite method of injuring our co-workers is HOSE WHIPPING. Last time I checked there were about 2215 of us. If we, as a group, decided to put an end to using velocity reducers, rams horns, double 90s or whatever you want to call the MACE LIKE DEVICES that go on the end of our DOUBLE COUPLED DISCHARGE HOSES, we could have a positive effect on the industry. And while we are at it, and since nothing will be allowed on the end… lets vow to do away with the end as well.

This is doable and makes sense. What is the worst thing that could happen? We saved a life. That sounds to me like a worthwhile project. I mean really, just how dangerous would that giant squid be if he didn’t have those bigass suckers on the end of his arms?

What do you think?


ftworth58 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

One thing I learn from past mistakes is attitude toward your job,that has alot to do with safety,even if you have and know all the info to be safe, if your attitude sucks with I dont give a crap, or I got to get off early so I need to hurry up and get done, or I am running late to the job and hurry through your setup,then to me all the info in the world wont help you on a daily basis if your attitude is not all about safety,and being professional.

Bob 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

10-4

;~)


bisley57 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

 I am in total agreemant with a non-double ended hose on the end of a boom,period.I will cut a hose if need be to make a "whip" hose.As stated before on this site put a hose with an end next to a whip hose on the floor,pick up the steel end and drop it,pick up the whip end hose and drop it,no comparison.Would I rather be run over with a bicycle than a car,why yes.

Fred The Pump Guy 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I could not agree more about discharge hoses with two ends, hanging from booms.  Got nailed myself many years ago, fortunately is was a hard hat job so, except for ringing my chimes, I got away clean.

In the last month I have heard two stories about similar incidents.  No matter how slick you are with a joystick, you can't guarantee that hose won't end up swinging.  If you can't guarantee the safety of everything you do on a jobsite, you should not be there.

"It'll be okay."  The most dangerous phrase that ever flashed through a pump operator's mind. It is a justification for doing something half-assed and is responsible, in some way, for most of the accidents/incidents that happen.  Let it guide your actions and you are gamibing with life, limbs, property, and profits.  Feeling lucky? 


Todd 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

17' Promise hard hat sticker worked great. What do we call the new hard hat sticker?

Tip Hose Promise

I will only use a single ended hose

 


Todd 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

or maybe something like this

Double ended tip hoses kill

No double ended tip hoses.

 


Todd 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

You know what i could use is some pictures of damage done by hose wiping, hose wiping videos and true hose wiping stories.


OE Local 3 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Art ...Hit it right on the head ! No double ended hoses as tip hoses ,and  If your are hooked to system to get what you cannot reach when you are done change it out to a Single end. (Rag Hose)

P.S. Art.. will you be around tonight ?

 

3

 

 

 

These Guys below know what happens with a double ended hose, they dont want to take a chance, They will change it for you. Safety First


putzman1975 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

placing booms is the only time ill run a boom  with a end on

WHO?? 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I think it is a great idea!!The double ended hose topic is some thing that I feel need to be addressed .Any rationaly thinking person can see that it is a BAD IDEA and with a little persuasion can be over come.I mean really how long does it take to put a SINGLE ended hose on at the end of a system poor or,A double ended hose at the begining of a system poor? I myself see NO EXCUSE for having a double ended hose on full time other than LAZINESS!!!!!
If there is any thing I can do to help this subject get out there let me know!!NONE of the guys in my yard will swing doubles!

Bob 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

putzman1975,

I know that I am going to regret asking...

Why do you think that it is OK on a placing boom job?


Bob 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Raymond,

The flexibility of a tip hose, even a one ended one is  a path to a hose whipping.

The 'new' anti-whip hoses are just flexible enough to work while remaining rigid enough to resist the bending necessary for the hose to whip. For all of the positive aspects of a single ended hose we do not want to promote the use of "floppy" and easily bent hoses.

The ultimate solution is a VASA style hose cuff with a rigid, non bending hose.

If we don't do something about this issue we will end up having a tip hose that looks like that cartoon of an OSHA approved cowboy


38zman 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

mmm well I replyed to this before but the post has vanished anyway I refused to do a ICF this past week untill they cut the double ended 3 inch into 2 pieces No steel will ever see the end of my hose....ever

toper 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

defenitly no steel on my tip, i did it once and a good friend told me better yet made me promise never again,hows about  a sticker w/a steel end on it and concrete flowing though it enclosed by a circle w/a slash through it, then u could put writing beneath it saying , NOT ON MY WATCH.

38zman 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

The aircuff on my pump lasted 10 days before it went into retirement..... no party and no watch....lol

Bob 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I am not advocating air cuffs

I included it to try and stave off the resistance to rigid hoses.


Todd 08-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I for one am interested in at least hearing and see more of your new hose, i heard that your company is adopting this new hose and that it is working really well. I would love to see it and hear more about it. I know that your company does not adopt something new unless you have a very good reason to do so.

Vasa 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Raymond , air-cuffs are reliable things....

I have run air-cuffs (3 differnt brands and our "homemade")for 14 years and never had a problem .

If the aircuff dont open the mud press through the air-cuff , but if you dont check the pipe or reducers You maybe blow some pipe or reducer...

If You get used to an air-cuff you don´t want to run a pump without one !

And We must have an air-cuff on  bridge jobs otherwise We been sent home....

And Our other customers who had a pump with an air-cuff dont want a pump without one . 


Pigpen3 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

The only good place for a dbl.ended hose  is onthe grond connected to a linepump !!

Munir 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

First of all important is for all us,

What is different between single end hose and double end hose?

It is simple.

Single end hose is standard of concrete boom pump.

Double ended hose is only for extension between two hose.

For example deep pour where boom is not enter or for more important place where is without double end hose not possible to do the job.

When we are known this is the different then why any operator uses the double end hose always.

If any operator is don’t know what is the problem by double end hose or he will not stop the double end hose.

It means he is not operator he is only playing with hose man.

My advice is for him,

Please one time he catch the hose and hose man operate the boom then that operator will well know what is the different between double end and single end hose.

We are never use double end hose because we know the different.

That’s why my request to all,

(Easy to change hose not easy to change any injure part of body)

Thanks

Munir


Jammy 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

vasa is right. i am lost with out a squeeze( air cuff). best thing ever

Bob 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

All BS aside. If we are honest about the cause of this problem; it just boils down to being lazy.

There is no reason other than a lack of professionalism.

Don’t let your lack of motivation be the cause of an injury. Clamp on the correct tip hose!


Todd 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Ok so if we are going start a no two ended hose campaign we need some campaign slogans or saying we can use on the hard hat stickers.


Bob 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

HEY TODD! here's some double end hose"slogans"
this user is offline now  TooTall 08-30-2008 17:01:10 reply | profile | send pm
Member
Joined : 07-25-2008

DOUBLE END HOSE'S DONT HANG WITH US!

DOUBLE END HOSE'S BREAK NOSE'S

DOUBLE END HOSE CAN'T HANG W/ PRO'S!

I could go on & on but I think 1 & 3 say it best!  Wait, I got 1 more good one

THERE IS NO ROOM FOR DOUBLE END HOSE OFF THE END OF THE BOOM! (swap it or go home)

HANG LIKE THE PRO'S-NO DOUBLE END HOSE!

I guess


Raymond 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Bros B4 Double Ended Hose!

Bob 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

DOUBLE END HOSE CAN'T HANG W/ PRO'S!

CLASSIC


TooTall 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Regaurdless of what they read. Send me a stack and I'll have 'em plastered on every hardhat up here! (except for the no-pros still hang'n DE hose, They dont wear hardhats)

Big Tobacco 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

"Don't Be A Drip... Use A Whip! No Double-ended Tip Hoses"

"Pump Like The Pro's... Use A Single-ended Tip Hose"

"Be Hip... Use A Whip! No Double-ended Tip Ho0ses" 


Bob 08-30-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Y'all should be on Madison Ave.

TooTall 08-31-2008 reply profile send pm notify

HEY BIG T.!  I thought ya might have some input on this one. Make sure ya tell the boys down there TooTall sez PUMP-ON! I know there aint no DE hose hang'n around there. Next chance ya get, ask Kirkland about his 1st snowboarding trip! He'll laugh so hard he might piss himself! (It was 16 years ago, If he goes into details, We were kids) 

65m Petee 08-31-2008 reply profile send pm notify

"BECAUSE OF WHIP,  I PROMISE TO PUT A ONE END ON THE TIP".  what do ya think?


Leroy 08-31-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Every Pro Knows-NO Double End Hose!

Swing me a double ender and I'll find a chopsaw! That aint no slogan! I'll Fix that problem real quik! 


TooTall 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Here's another! & another!

You wont make any Friends-If your tip hose has Two ends (a friendly message from your friends at concretepumping.com!)

Lets put an END to tip hoses with TWO ENDS! (Hang like the pros NO double-end hose)

Man thats good stuff there! Madison ave. baby! 


Bob 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

pure poetry ;~)

Bob 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

TT

So solly Miss Molly. Perhaps the Made in Hong Kong pumps have a double ended hose; others have a real McDeal tip hose.

The ACPA and the CPMA are both on board for this issue. ;~)


TooTall 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

The second series "reminder-stickers"sould be a pic of a DE hose instead of reading "discharge-hose xxx psi." It will read ( THIS DE HOSE IS NEVER TO BE USED AS TIP HOSE ) That'd get some attn.!

Yes I know possum is spelled with an O-...opossum. Its OK Bob Einstien did'nt sleep well either! lol


Bob 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Jes' like a odog un a ocat ;~)

TooTall 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Man I'm outta here. I going OBear hunt'n. Its 4:am!!!

Duane 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

every day is a great day just some days are better then others

TooTall 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I guess in my part of the counrty It does'nt matter much if its a 5"whip or double ender. Niether get used much up here in the N.W. Since we're spoiled with some of the best concrete in the country. Some guys will go a long time without see'n a job that needs a 5" whip. If ever. It makes sense to get the more expensive of the two. I have yet to have the pleasure of ordering a new pump. But Ive ran a few new ones and seen many more. Most of which supplied with a 5"DE hose with the ends wrapped in burlap? I had never realized my employers had ordered them this way. I've never seen a whip on any new pump from the top 4 manufacturers?


TooTall 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Bear hunt'n was a bust! (Obear hunt'n) only seen bear$h!t & baby trax 

Bob 09-01-2008 reply profile send pm notify

this user is offline now  art 09-01-2008 17:31:54 reply | profile | send pm
Member
Joined : 12-19-2007

1 ended hose= boom pour

2ended hose=system pour

dont forget


Bob 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

We need some more of your creativity.

Anyone have some zippy lines for the cause? I must admit that I have drawn a blank on this one.


Paint Master 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

real men only have rubber on their hose...   

lets put an end to metal ends....

let saftey begin only use single end...

I'm just throwing these out there, I haven't had my coffee yet. :)

            


Joe 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

One thing that I have noticed that no one has brought up yet and I am sure some one would have gotten to it is the dreaded mixer driver and single ended hoses. How many times has a driver let your hopper run dry and you have given it a couple of strokes of air???? UNfortunately I have, thankfully no one was hurt and thankfully I had a single ended hose on. We have a lot to be responsible out there on every jobsite. Can you imagine having a double ender on and having that hose jump up and get some one??? Years ago in the Bay Area before the company I was working for outlawed those freaking " S " pipes we had an operator plug up and before he shut it off in kicked loose. That hose with the s pipe followed the hose before it him in the back of the neck and paralyzed a 26yr old man for life. I know I wouldnt want that on my conscience. Just the other day I had a double ender because I had 250ft hose on, I pulled it out of the building and they wanted a couple of strokes into a little surb they had a street level. SO I unkinked the hose and waited probably 10 mins while my 55m boom drained out. When that wasnt enough I took off that hose put my whip on gave him 3-4 strokes and while he wasnt thrilled it took an extra 5 mins every one went home to mama and the supt came out and said thank you. He saw me have that double ender over the curb and was going to call the boss if I gave even one stroke. Not happening here fellas.....

Kretch 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Bob,

It is interesting to see your post about the double ended hose.  I have pumped concrete and I have sold pumps.  I have always stressed the importance of a single ended hose to everyone.  Not to mention a safety strap and all clamps having safety pins.  I have to chuckle when I think about all the videos I have seen from manufacturers where they are demonstrating a new pump and the hose man is hanging onto a "Double Ended Hose".  I have been to yards of major pumping companies and seen their pumps with double ended hoses hangind in the cradle.  And again, no safety pins or in many cases, no safety straps.

Gentlemen....... And Ladies......  This is simple and logical thinking here.  If you were the person on the hose, what would you want to see out there?  Have you ever experienced a "Hose Whip".  I have.  Thought I killed some people one day while usind a rough neck.  When you are pumping at a pretty good pace, it only takes a second for one of them to clear it's throat.  Had I been using a double ended hose that day I would have taken a man's head clean off. 

There can be no good reason for using a double ended hose.  And if your safety pins and straps aren't in place, then you are just plane lazy.  Take some pride but don't take any chances.


Bob 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I used to think that it was "Not Knowing"

Now I am with you,

Lazy ass, I don't care attitude.

And they are never the ones to pay the insurance, the claim or the human cost.


Ernie 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I know that you all have heard it before, but the only time that you should use a 2 ended hose is when you are hooking up to system.  Their is too much at stake if we don't.  Let alone our own pride in what we all do for a living.


Granite Pumping 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

The easiest way to explain to a person that wants to you a DE hose is kick them in the nuts with a steel toe boot, when they get back up tell them A DE hose can kill some one, be happy that I only kicked you in the nuts.  


ruck 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I can sit here and tell you everything you have heard a million times.But if you are rookie or a guy who uses a double ended hose.PLEASE LISTEN TO THESE GUYS. They are all right about this this subject.Some of these guys where pumping concrete before you even seen one. They have seen it all.I've been pumping concrete for 23 years.And have learned alot off this site.So keep safe and PLEASE NO DOUBLE ENDS.

Ruck


Bob 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

  Granite Pumping

I PROMISE I will never swing a double ended hose around you. ye-ouch ;~)


N2mud 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

About,2-3 months ago I witnessed a 32m operator not only using a double-ender for dry ftg mud,But attached to the D.E. was an "S" bend. I turned my truck around, drove back to him and asked "how long he had been an operator"? and if he knew they were dangerous? His reply: "Kinda new to the boom" had been running a line pump for about 1 yr. wasn't aware of anyone ever being hurt. When I left the operator, he continued using the deadly Ender w/"S" bend. I will not mention the Company the operator works for nor would I ever tell an operator from a different Co. how to pump concrete safely. (It would open a BIG can of worms)

putzmaster 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I have to agree very stongly about single-ended hoses only being used. When I first started boom pumping, it was on 32m schwing with a black & white remote. I was doing a house slab and was stretched out flat. I kept warning the guys about the hose because it was double-ended. Needless to say, a guy walked right into it after i had just stopped swinging the boom and it was on it's third swing. Popped him right above the eye and he went down hard. I cut the tip off right there on that job with a demo-saw. Hard lesson for both of us. Now I use a five to four single end reducing hose which works great. Just say hell no to double-end hoses.

LIL47 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I completely agree that this should be a non issue. BUT I also think that what we are involved in here is a good thing. Obviously I do not hang a double. Never have, never will! But when I was NEW at this I had a good trainer that warned me early on about many different safety issues, doubles being one of them. Hopefully there is a new guy reading this thread right now going " Man I had no idea that this was such a big deal. Im never going to do that again!". Also, I just wanted to say something about HOSE WHIPPINGS in general. 90% of the time in my experience a hose will whip when air gets into the system, like when the driver runs the hopper empty for a few strokes and then fills the hopper again and the operator just keeps pumping like nothing is happening and then WHAMO!!! Of course it is always worse when the hose man decides that its a little low over there and pushes the hose as far as he can at the same moment the air comes through. LISTEN to your pump. As soon as you here the pipes STOP snapping STOP your pump make sure the hopper is full and the flow of concrete into your hopper is not blocked and then start pumping again SLOWLY until the air pocket comes through. When the pipes are snapping adjust back to a comfortable speed. That should be simple. Dont get pissed at the driver and turn it up. Always be thinking of everybody's safety with every decision you make. Double ended hoses are more subject to the worst type of whipping imaginable. THE PLUG AND RELEASE! The inner steal that binds the coupling to the rubber hose can create enough resistance to plug and then release. If the coupling hits a guy in the chest or the face it can KILL!!! Imagine dropping a double ended hose from a three story building and having it land on your chest. When ever possible I like to operate from a position that allows me to see past the operator to the pump. I listen to my pump for ANY out of the ordinary sounds. Hydraulic whining, pipes not snapping EVERY SOUND. And when I here something, I shut it off FIRST and then look to see whats happening.

Bob 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

LIL47,  Right on target!

Once that air gets in there your best defense is your sense of hearing. It may be nice to lean on your front bumper while you pump. It is warmer in the winter and sometimes a shady spot in the summer. That engine noise, and the LOUD howl from the fan rob you of your ability to hear the air in your system.

Stay away from your cab. Try and position yourself where you can see the hoseman and still be able to glance over at the mixer driver. Usually, if you can see him you can also hear his engine rev when he is empty.

You have four senses that come into play as an operator. Use them all to your advantage. Your co-workers will thank you. ;~)


Many 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Hey Bob

I seem to remember a vidieo on Pumpco's website that shows hose whip.It really makes one take note.


mohd 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Hi everybody. how is everyone doing?

well, today was a good. done alot of work on my boom truck. I got it ready to get back to work. since we were hit by dolly last month and before that the rain and after so we had not much to do around here. any body got hurt? no, everybody got home safe.

about the double end hose. well, that dosen't exist around. I mean just picturing my boom truck with a duoble tip hose, don't look right. why and what for do you use duoble tip hoses?


Bob 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

why and what for do you use duoble tip hoses?

The only use I know of is connecting to other system. ;~)


Go-To 09-02-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Haven't kept in touch in a while. I've been pumping in Calgary for Inland Concrete for 3 yrs. Always use cut-off placing hoses. I've had close calls and boy am I glad that's what we use. I think all companys should make them manditory.

Big Davo 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Over here in Oz it is illegal to use a double ended hose as a drop (tip) hose. Makes a lot of sense to me.


youngpup 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

The only time we use a double ended hose at our company is when we are doing a line job through the boom. We absolutely never use them as a placing hose!! How can you be part of the ACPA and not practice safety?? It is for the good of all to practice safety so everybody can go home at night!!

Munir 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Hi to all,

I want to share one thing if you all agree on this,

This is forever,

I think if we explain to traffic department about double end and single end hose.

When the traffic department understand problem by double end hose then they will not pass concrete pump with double end hose and I am sure they will ask to owner of concrete pump fix the single end hose and take pass book for your pump.

Thank you.


concreteforbreakfast 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

As a member of management for my company we have a very good policy on double ended hoses, if you want an unpaid vacation use a double ended hose. The problem we have is when we are doing a system job and the operator is coming out of the building (or what ever it is we are pouring) and pour the rest of the job out of the tip hose they seem to forget to change to a 1 ended hose. So we really have to watch them closely and keep reminding them in our safety meetings

coinc 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Bob, I agree with you completely on this issue. With the faster, longer and more powerful pumps along with the pour demands and funky mixes this is clearly the new premier safety issue.

I believe it would be a good idea to get this issue in front of the contractors as a "heads up" memo to be addressed in their scheduled safety meetings. Its good to have additional eyes in the field to help assure conformity.

Jim 


Toby 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

A pump operator ,or should I say a man running a boom pump who worked in our area bout 5 years ago was standing 5-6 feet away from his double-ended death hose while priming out his pump tried to plug, the hose curled up and landed on top of his head(no hard hat).He suffered a broke neck.Guess he was lucky it didnt kill him.What I cant Understand is why he still uses the death hose today.What a goober

LIL47 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Its sad how many unqualified people there are running boom pumps. I see it all the time and it angers me! These are the ones that end up killing somebody before their done. I dont know why but some just slip through the cracks.

ROOK 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

why not swith to all 5 inch tip hoses so there will no longer be plug and releases it would also be safer

eddie 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Im sorry, but I dont think it is the contractors job to make sure that the pump dosent have a double endend hose. That is totally in the hand of the man in charge of the remote.

caliber34 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

whats up guys?  i know i dont log in that often but this seems important. ive been pumping a little over seven years now and untill recently had never had a hose whip. i"ve been on a mission to get my employer to understand the dangers of the two ended hose or the double 90 but they didnt understand, the pumps are owned by a redi-mix company that does their own isulated wall forms,  about 2 months ago the truck let the hopper go low during the prime, swung over to start the slab, kicked the pump on and BAM happened faster then i could react. it broke the hose mans thumb and hit a 250 lb finisher and threw him right off the slab, and that was with a whip on it would've killed someone if was a dbl. It scared the hell outa me if you've seen it first hand you know what im talking about, if not listen to these guys they're full of wisdom and can keep you out of trouble. be safe 

TooTall 09-03-2008 reply profile send pm notify

YEAH RIGHT, These guys would $hit them selves if they had to use 5" anything. Most of the contractors & workers here in the NW think a 4" is a 5". Its funny when some of them actually do see a 5"whip they'll say " What the hell ya gonna do with that, In shock!" The every day hose here is a 3" whip. The mud here is gravy. Some days its mashed potatoes. most days its gravy. Though we dont have to work so hard to make it pump. We do have to be on our toes and ready to pump-off RighNow! Usually because of debris outta mixers.

"SINGLE ENDED HOSE IS THE ONLY WAY IT GOES"

Make the sticker the shape of an ambulance and on it write this  "SAVE 'EM A TRIP. USE A WHIP"

I still like "Double end hose dont hang with the pros"!


38zman 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

WOW

I have to say alot of responses to this I was on a site in Toronto 3 pumps on the same street all being supplied on the same street it was a nightmare The other 2 pumps were from a diffrent company and both were using double ended hoses I ask one of the operators what are you doing that for his response was they like them I said to him so when you are driving home do you call them and ask if it isok for you to stop at the stop sign or should I run it....

The other is the mixer driver who for no good reason lets the hopper go empty I was pumping a floor and stroking it hard ( please keep the laughter to a min please  :o) ) and air concrete air concrete on a second floor  The force of it sent to guys on hose for a ride. I shut down the the job went to the mixer driver and asked why he could not keep up his lame response was so bad I folded up his chute and said leave He then asked me to sign his bill as I was laughing I called there dispatch and told them what happened he left there safety guy came to see me after a brief conversation with him  He calls the driver who was now enroute to another job he said take the f..... truck back to the yard you are on a 3day suspension with out pay. The union calls me later on and we chatted and the moral of this was the union was not going to back unsafe practices and stupid drivers and the 3 day turned into a 5 day with out pay for this idiot.


Kretch 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I see there has been a great deal of dialog on the subject since I posted my comments a few days ago.  I have not read any remarks in opposition to Bob's thread.

 

I feel the majority of operators who are using double ended hoses are doing it out of ignorance.  If no one ever told them otherwise, you can't expect them to know.  I feel there is room for forgivness to these people.  But if you see it happening and you don't say something to someone then I feel the blame is on you if someone get hurt.  We have to pass the word on whenever possible.  There is little said about the rules of pumping concrete to the general public.  But if one of us with the knowledge sees it happening and we go to the operator, foreman, or safety manager, we could get the point across. 

Too many operators are being hired today right off the street.  With a brief introduction they are on their way to pumping concrete.  Many of the owners of these pumps don't even know how to operate them, or anything about the safety issues.  Maybe it is time for all the pump manufacturers to do a campaign with their sales brochures to promote more of these safety concerns.  Most of the pump companies are not members of the ACPA, nor do they know about this site.  So we will go with ignorance in some cases, but I will still stick to my original thought that if it is a seasoned operator, or one who was proplerly trained and they are using a DEH, then they are just lazy, and they have no regard for the safety of others.


Kretch 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

 I can't help but put in a word related to LIL47's remarks, and knowing part of it was a bit off the subject of the douple ended hoses.  This could spin off on an entirely different thread.

The problem in many cases is the mixer driver.  I have had situations where they are not paying attention to the pour and they let the hopper run empty.  This is something where you can normally stop the job long enough to have a one minute feedback session with them to get them on the right track.  However, I know it is borring for them to have to sit there at your pump for five minutes.

There is a long list of some of the crazy things these guys have done, and I am sure some of them will make you laugh.  One problem I have had in the past was to be pumping and listening to every sound coming out of my pump, when I hear a series of big bangs.  This is enough to set any operator on his ear.  When I would stop I would see that the truck driver had found my hammer and he decided to start beating the concrete off of his truck.  Needless to say I made enough time to strole over (at a high rate of speed) and remove the hammer from his grip.  Then I would have another one of those one minute feed back sessions with him to assure he would never do that again.  Thought you might find some humor in that one.

 


TooTall 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

We need stickers for our hoppers that say...WHEN IT OVER-FLOWS,STOP THE DRUM! WHEN IT BLOWS UP, FILL IT! Try to keep it somewhere in between! Thank you, Pump-on ...

bisley57 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

For N2mud,Why did you stop and talk with this operator in the first place?If you are not going to help,keep moving.How would you feel if you heard through the grapevine a finisher had half his head removed from a double ended hose,and it was on the job you "visited".I don't care who an operator works for,I will help in any way I can.We need people in this industry that look out for their fellow operators,period.

mohd 09-04-2008 reply profile send pm notify

hi everyone

I think jobs that need system work I will not send my boom to get it done with single tip hose. so there woulden't be a possiblty to do it with 2 end hoses. if I agree to do it would probly not harm the boom in anyway but to make sure no body at the job site get hurt. I'll pass that job.

you just can't trust the hoses even if they are new, to have that kind of pressure going thru them. that kind of job  might have been done beforesome where. not here where we at. for those who are doing it they need to be carefull. coz when you get that guy at the job site disable for the rest of his life, then the operator is not going to forget, the owner or the company will get a bad rep, all the customer around you will hear about it. and you'll never be able to go get their jobs any more.

thats what i think.


sgt580 09-05-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Never used a double ended tip hose and NEVER will.

sad in a schwing 09-05-2008 reply profile send pm notify

bob I totally agree on this issue. I also appreciate all the advice you offer. I have been in concrete pumping for a lot of years and I know a lot, but there is a lot I don't know. People taking serious situations seriously, and offering direct, reasonable advice, you are an asset to the industry. THANK YOU.

pudg2 09-05-2008 reply profile send pm notify

As many of you know I was a proponent one time of the de hose but all the talk on this site we instituted a whip hose policy, the best management stand I ever made,rite up there with the no reduction hose stand,I say we do one to keep your reduction in steel not in hoses  we just havent pushed it as a site concerned with safety this should be the next one we address but the de hose I have to give Bob the pat on the back for helping me see the light,way to go bob and I say pros before hose with the de with the  on it

ice 09-05-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Back in 2000 was working for a concrete contractor, a good firend of mine always ran the hose, was pouring a pool deck, shot a rock out of a double ended hose, hose whipped came up his chest knocked his hardhat off, came back down and hit him in the head, 43 stitches in his head,I thought I had killed him, I almost quit then. When I went to see him in the hospital he talked me into staying, It was the last time I ever used a double ended hose..

I hope this story helps everyone realize they are very dangerous to use.


Russ 09-05-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I have to agree with with this issue. Although not totally innocent of never having run a DE hose, I truly believe in doing things safely every time, regardless of attitude, weather, time it takes, etc. So many have been hurt and it only takes one person, that you have hurt to ruin not only that persons life, but also your own. Do the right thing!!! Single ended whip hoses. Also I agree with pudg2 we should also explore the reduction hose issue as well. Keep it steel!

Russ


kneerick 09-08-2008 reply profile send pm notify

all this talk about deh's and it seems that know one has explained why not to use them! how is it you expect the rookies to learn if you dont explain it.hoses are like guns they dont kill people its what you do with them that kills! we should also remember hose should never laid across anything (walls)but the ground,deck!ASCIDE FROM THE FACT THAT YOUR SHIN'S DONT LIKE TO BE STRUCK WITH STEEL,THE REASON YOU SHOULD'NT RUN A DOUBLE ENDED HOSE IS THAT WHEN THEY ARE NEW THERE IS A LIP INSIDE THAT LIKES TO CATCH ROCKS WICH CAUSES THE PLUG AND FIRE!YOU GUYS THAT DONT HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE DOUBLE HAVE PROBALLY WORN THIS LIP DOWN!YOU SHOULD REGUARLLY WASH YOUR HOSE 'S AND INSPECT THEM FOR WEAR! 

dazla 09-08-2008 reply profile send pm notify

hi all we have a policy at our company that when working of the boom we only hang a steady hose one ended. I agree its only laziness thatsome cant be bothered to change the end hose when coming of a pipeline etc. the man on the end puts a lot of trust in us operators id hate to think i could hurt anyone just because i coulnt be bothered to change the hose.

Daz


pudg 09-08-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Too Tall,

I have been ordering pumps for about 5 years now and I am by no means the most experienced at it but I have never had a manufacturer that would send me a pump with a de hose on it ,maybe they just dont like me but all the ones I have ordered came with either 5-4 red hoses or  5"  whip hose.


Todd 09-18-2008 reply profile send pm notify

I have very good news. I know for a fact that our talking about Double ended hose issues has changed the minds of many. I have gotten emails, calls and messages saying thank you for the support and for caring about our company and letting me know that they or their company no longer uses Double ended hose.

I know we have made a difference already but I have more good news for you. We hope to get funding for our new Double ended hose hard hat sticker next week and we should be ordering them very soon as well as our new 17’ sticker.

 

So be of good cheer we are making progress.

 

Todd Bullis

www.concretepumping.com


Garneaux 09-29-2008 reply profile send pm notify

Here in Washington state it is illegal to run metal at the discharge end of the system. I personally think that is going to far in regards to line pumping. however I agree completely with the law regarding to hanging hoses. Recently a man was killed in Seattle from bring struck in the back of the head with a double ended hose. If it had been a whip hose he probably would have lived. And what is the big deal about taking off or on the end hose??? I refuse to fold up my boom with a hose on it takes me what 15 seconds to remove my hose and cap my reducer... (I dont like my boom to look like shit aka covered in slurry) and as far as the kinking thing goes why not???? I king the hose and halo it?? If I have to go high I use a boom strap and be sure its tight. If you accidentally turn on the pump whether its capped kinked plugged or squeezed you in for one hell of a mess regardless. Seth

Farmboy72 01-10-2016 reply profile send pm notify

Had a customer try to tell me that I needed to put a double 90 on the end to fill his styrofoam block. He told me that he had talked to the sales rep of the block, and that is what he says was needed In order to slow the flow enough. I spent ten minutes trying to explain to him that I will not hang that metal off the end for safety concerns. After going back and forth for a while, I got him to see my side.

the point being, we also need to make sure sales reps in the related industries ( styrofoam blocks, specifically) understand why that extra metal should not hung off the end.

 

If your wondering, I get good results using lay flat hose for styrofoam block


Todd 01-10-2016 reply profile send pm notify

great great job, way to go. I love it.


putzman1975 01-12-2016 reply profile send pm notify

To blow back with air